Curse

Shakra · Nov 01, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I agree with sergent, they'll just wake up from it's stone dream, that provably in an extraordinary try of being original by Anet, will be nothing but a Terrible Curse, maybe from the Sends (Factions, that f*ckin cow-man with girl voice piss me off) or maybe from anooother Threat what is going to come in a future expansion (Business is Business, remember? F*ck the plot!)

S.

Chilos · Nov 01, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

seems like a pretty weird sleeping position.

I woke up once in position like that, oww my neck and back

Giga Strike · Nov 01, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

[QUOTE=Kwisatz_Haderach]I don't know the gods have failed to finish the job before (abbadon).QUOTE] they didnt kill abbadon because a god can't be killed. if it's destroyed it will re-manifest unless the power is absorbed into another form. the dragons aren't gods.

gnome · Nov 01, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I think that the death of the gr8 destroyer pissed off the dragon to own all dragons so it awoke and decided to pwn our little earth. The one in charrville and 1 under drakkar lake are prolly his brothers or m8s or sumthing

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 01, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Hmm during one of the Visions, Vekk mentions the chamber in which Primordius is. He mentions the 'big statue' was the reason that they build the Central Transfer Chamber there, since it was 'practically bleeding magic'.

So at least Primordus has been turned to stone somehow. (ofcourse the dwarves have been turned to stone as well and can still move) Also the dragons seem to be tremendously powerfull magical creatures.

Question is how does the Great Dwarf fit in this all? Are the Destroyers actually the Destroyers from their Dwarven Lore? Or is Primordus actually the Great Destroyer, since the 'Great Destroyer' who we defeated in GWEN was one of the greatest luitenants of Primordus, thus was working for him.
If the Great Dwarf knew the Destroyers were coming, he probably also knew about the tie between them and the dragons. Maybe he is a possible ally in the future?

PureEvilYak · Nov 02, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

I wonder... is there a God realm dragon? I was just wondering why the Gods had been so inactive for the 250 years, and, well, if they were besieged, then all is explained. It even explains Balthazar's trip to stand on lions arch and make a portal to the rifts; as the bravest of the gods, he would be the only one willing to risk life and limb to support his people. My theory isn't without holes, but what do you think of it?

Free Runner · Nov 02, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

Question is how does the Great Dwarf fit in this all? Are the Destroyers actually the Destroyers from their Dwarven Lore? Or is Primordus actually the Great Destroyer, since the 'Great Destroyer' who we defeated in GWEN was one of the greatest luitenants of Primordus, thus was working for him.
If the Great Dwarf knew the Destroyers were coming, he probably also knew about the tie between them and the dragons. Maybe he is a possible ally in the future?

Well i would guess the Destroyers are the same ones from the Tome of Rubicon. It all played out like the Tome said...the Dwarves certainly changed and the Great Destroyer awakened...... except for the final confrontation.

However... (speculation and theories begin here)

The Great Destroyer has been cast down into the Depths. Never again shall its name be uttered, lest it rise up and bring ruin down upon the world.

It sounds like the Great Destroyer has appeared once before and was defeated. If the Great Destroyer was then surely its master would of been defeated - Primordus. If the Tome tells of an ancient battle between the Great Dwaf and the Great Destroyer then the Great Dwarf has beaten the Great Destroyer once and fortold that it would rise once again leading to another battle. But how did he know it would rise again? how did he know the Destroyers would rise and begin to spread across Tyria?

One way of knowing would be to know when the Great Destroyers master would begin to awaken- meaning he would have to know about Primordus.

I doubt that the Great Dwarf could take out Primordus AND his most powerful general. So while he fought the great Destroyer who could of fought Primordus other than the Gods themselves?

Quote:

The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory

So..what if the Great Dwarf and the Gods fought to defeat the Dragons and their minions eventually sealing them? and i'm not talking about Dwayna, Dhuum, Balthazar, Abaddon, Melandru and Lyssa - we know a person can claim a Gods power by defeating them (See: Grenth and Dhumm,Abaddon and the previous God and Kormir and Abaddon) - there could of been Gods before them in the times before the GL....the times the Dragons could be from.

So with that the 6 Gods who are known in Tyrias History (aswell as those who have become Gods through the time of mankind) may not know anything about the Dragons.

............Okay i'm done rambling

Mark Nevermiss · Nov 02, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Whatever this means.

As for Grenth defeating and thus deposing Dhuum, I think what really happened was that Grenth tagged along some naive heroes of that time, such as Kormir did following us while we did the dirty work for her, and when Dhuum was defeated by those heroes Grenth suddenly sprang to life and ran forward absorbing the energies and claiming the place for himself.

Beeb beeb · Nov 02, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I always thougt Grenth was a half God or something.

StarSeeker · Nov 02, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Oooh boys, I found something to fuel the fire:

Quote:

Previously the site of a floating temple known as Kuan Jun, the Harvest Temple, the Unwaking Waters is an immense, frozen whirlpool. When the Jade Winds passed over Cantha and Kuan Jun sunk beneath the ocean's surface, the whirlpool was formed, and like everything else in the path of the winds, became solid jade. Legends say a powerful dragon was trapped within the temple and lives there still.

From the wiki about Unwaking Waters. I read it first in-game, and thought about this whole Dragon thing. So, whaddya think? Is our good ol' nazi-emperor going to have a BIG problem or is this guy not one of those really powerful dragons?

CrowRbot · Nov 02, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Couldn't it mean Kuunavang, seeing as how that's who you fight in the mission?

Free Runner · Nov 02, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Yeah its reffering to Kuunavang. Take note that Anet had probably never even thought about these Dragons when Factions was made.

PureEvilYak · Nov 02, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

It sounds like the Great Destroyer has appeared once before and was defeated. If the Great Destroyer was then surely its master would of been defeated - Primordus. If the Tome tells of an ancient battle between the Great Dwaf and the Great Destroyer then the Great Dwarf has beaten the Great Destroyer once and fortold that it would rise once again leading to another battle. But how did he know it would rise again? how did he know the Destroyers would rise and begin to spread across Tyria?

One way of knowing would be to know when the Great Destroyers master would begin to awaken- meaning he would have to know about Primordus.

I doubt that the Great Dwarf could take out Primordus AND his most powerful general. So while he fought the great Destroyer who could of fought Primordus other than the Gods themselves?

Primordus haven't risen since the time of the Gigantus Lupus (or whatever it is). The dwarfs, while, as I understand it, the second sentient race on Tyria since then (the forgotten being the first), have not been living long enough to have witnessed the ancient dragons' last awakening.
I think that Primordus tried to rise once before, with the Great Destroyer, his most loyal subject, preparing the way. However, I assume that the Great Dwarf, in his prime, fought and defeated the great destroyer, setting Primordus' awakening by thousands of years. Primordus tried to do the same in modern Tyria, yet his general was beaten again, this time by us. This set him back again, but obviously he was much closer to his awakening this time, so only 250 years pass before he is fit to rise. This is all speculation, but it seems logical.

KalleDamos · Nov 02, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Before the destroyers, there were another set of creatures that were made of fire and earth. The Titans. The Titans are found in the Foundry of Failed Creations, this does not mean they are creations of gods or men however. At one point this Primordius was above land. Maybe, jsut maybe he forged the Titan's to be his original servants rather than the destroyers. But they became too smart, too much to control, so he and and his dragon kin banished them to the foundry of failed creation, and Primordius learnt his lession and rather make killing machines that can think, he just made killing machines. Think about it, it makes sense.

Aubis · Nov 03, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Maybe the dragons were the first races the Gods made then the Gigantus Lupus. the gods give magic to the dragons to see how the other beings they made would act with that divine power at first it was ok the dragons use it to make life a whole lot better. Then the dragons started asking for more and the gods gave them more til the dragons were almost as powerful as them so they cut off the magic to the dragons. Then a powerful dragon Primrdus rally his race to steal all serect to magic the gods may have gave some magic to Gigantus Lupus. To sum it up at the cost of a whole race the gods seal mosts of the dragons, put the forgotten on tyria to guide all races, and took away magic til the races were truthly really for that power or found away nerf it.

Free Runner · Nov 03, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

The Titans are not made of fire and earth though. They only take that appearence in Volcanic areas - they are spirits that take the form of the most dominent aspect of their environment.

Destroyers dont have this ability and are just mindless fiery entitys brought to life (presumably by Primordus's breath) . So i think its safe to say the Destroyers from the past are not the Titans.

KalleDamos · Nov 03, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I never was trying to make the connection that the destroyers from the past were the Titan's. I was just trying to make the connection that the titan's may have been originaly created by primordius as a prototype to the destroyers. They were powerful and deadly, but too smart and with too much free will, so they were scrapped and sent to the foundry of failed creations, while the destroyer 2.0 went into production around the time the great dwarf smote them good.

draxynnic · Nov 05, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Or the Titans could simply have been Abaddon's work post-Exodus all along. I don't remember any indication that the Door of Komalie has been around for longer than Abaddon's banishment to Torment, and while people have made connections between the Giganticus Lupicus and the Titans, I think that's far from being confirmed. (In fact, I'd say it's highly unlikely, since the Lupicus apparently leave skeletons behind when they die, and being constructed out of whatever's available in the environment the Titans probably don't have skeletons...)

Onarik Amrak · Nov 05, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I'm pretty sure the Titans were made by Abaddon in the Foundry of Failed Creations.

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 05, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

So..what if the Great Dwarf and the Gods fought to defeat the Dragons and their minions eventually sealing them? and i'm not talking about Dwayna, Dhuum, Balthazar, Abaddon, Melandru and Lyssa - we know a person can claim a Gods power by defeating them (See: Grenth and Dhumm,Abaddon and the previous God and Kormir and Abaddon) - there could of been Gods before them in the times before the GL....the times the Dragons could be from.

So with that the 6 Gods who are known in Tyrias History (aswell as those who have become Gods through the time of mankind) may not know anything about the Dragons.

............Okay i'm done rambling

Quote from the Apostate quest: 'You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon's hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he maybe supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.'

Abaddon had a predecessor, fact. Also, Abaddon is stronger then 2 of the other gods combined, also he is older then the rest, probably from a different generation.
From the final cutscene when you defeat Abaddon, Kormir says that she has absorbed his power and KNOWLEDGE.

If any of the gods existed when the dragons roamed Tyria, it should be Abaddon, since he is the oldest of them. He was also the god of Water and Knowledge before he went mad. He probably absorbed all the knowledge of his predecessor, like Kormir did to him. So at least Kormir should know about the Dragons.

I just noted, that many of the gods inscriptions date 48 BE (before Exodus). At the statue of Grenth it says that this is the day he got his first (human?) follower. Maybe he supplaced Dhuum at this date? On the other hand, humans only have been on Tyria since 768 BE, so he might just have waited a VERY long time till he choose followers. Balthazar, Melandru and Lyssa are also this date, but Dwayna is 115 BE, which seems like a date that cannot be, because the event it describes dates at 1 BE. Abaddon scripture also dates 1 BE, but this is when he went Mad-God-Style. Hmmm.....

So it could be, that the gods are only there since 48BE. Maybe Grenth supplaced Dhuum at this date, but the other gods supplaced their predecessors at this date as well. But since those other gods are quiet about it (and Dhuum not), we never heard from them. This means that Tyria was not created by the gods we know, but their predecessors. Their predecessors apprently created the first sentient beings, the Forgotten, at 1769 BE.

NOW, WHICH GOD WOULD NOT CREATE HIS FIRST FOLLOWERS IN RESEMBLANCE OF THEIR OWN IMAGE? Hmmm, Forgotten look like serpents, in other words DRAGONS?

To think of it, the 'gods' have been mentioned before 48BE, but not their NAMES. Their names are dated 48 BE as the oldest (regarding the 115BE date on Dwayna as FALSE, since this is inconsistent with history factiods).

There I've said it.

The Dragons are the original gods that created Tyria. The 5 Gods (or 6) replaced them around 48 BE. They left only 48 years later (Exodus), to create other worlds (Fact, Tyria was only the first)

Edit: the first being created by the gods was Glint, a dragon. The first sentient race were the Forgotten, which were created to aid her.